I'm not an ebike hater - but (you knew it was coming) - I can't ever see myself being able to justify the expense of one and I wouldn't like to risk a second hand one. This gives a very wide and flexible power band that does well to match what your legs are doing, making this the go-to, set-and-forget mode for proper off-roading. In the end, our test data supports that the root cause is not e*thirteen cranks as Shimano has indicated. By Ralf Hauser Bosch's Performance Line CX equals Shimano's torque,. That is, spme pretension or a clutch like system. According to Shimano, the EP8 motor offers a 36% reduction in drag over the old E8000 motor, and were inclined to believe that claim. While there were limited options to tweak the levels of the old E8000 and E7000 motors, EP8 takes it to the next level, allowing riders to alter the motors torque, acceleration and general on-trail character, resulting in a more personalised experience for dialling your e-MTB in for your riding style and terrain. This allows bike companies to engineer a single frame, while offering cheaper models with a 504Wh battery, and high-end models with a 630Wh battery. Yeah but who needs all that power? 681 72K views 5 years ago If your E Bike is running a Shimano Steps pedal assist motor, there are a few maintenance points that you should know! If consumers use the recommended cranks, there should not be any issue this combination meets our strict and exacting quality standards. Along with the fault-free performance weve experienced so far, wed have no hesitation in recommending a bike built around Shimano EP8 this is a high quality and well-rounded e-MTB system. (7000km ridden so far). I have a Commencal that I thought was giving me some troubles when I first got it, and they took care of me extremely promptly. Did some rides on a scott e-genius 920(2020) and my biggest one I did was a 115 km with 2000 meters of ascent ,19 km average speed,all in the eco mode and riding some rocky terrain with some tarmac ,fire roads ,very mixed terrain ,and I did got impressed with the power and the range ,didnt got me so tired on the legs its most a cardio ,but dont put more power on them and no more battery capacity,cause it wil make them almost a dirt bike :-((. On top of that, Shimano also appears to be cool with brands building their bikes with non-Shimano batteries. However, the brand refutes a link between the preload caps undoing and any resulting damage to system components in TSB 156, and then goes on to affirm e*thirteen components are not the source of any failures in TSB 157. That just isn't real world riding though, you just don't spend all your time in boost mode. This is a real review with details and pros and cons. Basically, the battery level drops from around 30% to 2% extremely quickly. For a lighter pedal feel than the E8000, the one-way bearing has reduced its rotational resistance, creating a free play. Not the first time Shimano has screwed the pooch with recent launches. Put on i9 Hydra hubs, annoying motor rattle sounds disappears. The clicking sound has no effect on the function or durability of the drive unit. if we need that extra push over the cliff, you know what we do, we charge it up to 11. Drive Unit Display Assist Switch Battery Drivetrain Tackle steep climbs and tough trails with full confidence thanks to 85Nm maximum torque. This data covers comprehensive third party metallurgical analysis in addition to results from a rigorous test battery of corrosion testing combined with ISO Fatigue. No, you're running the latest EP8. The thing is though, you do actually get used to that noise. Subscribe to Cycling Plus from just 13.50 and get a Lezyne Pocket Drive Pump, worth 29! As much as I want an emtb right now, I am waiting until the technology is perfected. Oh man, so that must mean you know of rigs they've received that they've not done first rides and then field tests on. 2b - If threadlock patch is present, move on to step 3. - Range estimation is not reliable. Total power isnt quite as brutish as Bosch and Brose, but the real beauty about EP8 is that it retains the smooth and intuitive performance that we loved about the old motor. Wowzers! While midly annoying, it only takes a couple button presses to get back to get an 800% stabbing strength increase! Why don't you just make 10 be the top number and make that fully charged? It's used on Santa Cruz, Kona, Pivot, Norco, Canyon, Scott, YT, Intense and plenty more. Seems quite useful for when pushing the bike up these impossible climbs. So when the new version is so much better Refinement is all relative. Also the bikes will be heavy as f*ck with an 820Wh battery. Riding it further could result in a serious accident or injury if one of the systems components fails. All the grit is gone because it's clearly stuck between your bitter little arse cheeks.. Our drive units are not tested for use with third party crank arms.. What would happen if a consumer noticed their axle was cracked in the way described on e*thirteens TSB? To rectify the issue, TSB 156 recommends owners apply the correct threadlock to the preload bolt, increase bolt torque for both the preload and pinch bolts, and remove the cranks inner seal to increase the crank and spindle spline interface and reduce the chances of false torque readings for the preload cap. Have had my Norco Range LVT with the EP8 for a week and have noticed the noise, maybe once? Stab happy!". Though the new EP8 motor is claimed to be more efficient than its predecessor, there is of course more power too. Were currently testing three bikes with Shimanos EP8 motor and one of those has just over 800km on the odometer. Assistance Start Here you can tweak how quickly the motor responds within the first pedal stroke. I had the same issue with my Yamaha but it was last winter. I do not have a car. Otherwise I do not care. The noise is easily demonstrated if you pick the back wheel up a few inches off the ground and let it come back down. An e-Mtb allows me to ride farther, and more often and smile from beginning to end, not just the downhill sections! When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. Overall it is a very refined system though. This means that if you ride in the default Trail and Boost settings, youll actually end up with a similar total range as the old E8000 motor, albeit with the benefit of more power and assistance throughout the ride. If you aren't climbing steeps and requiring the torque, you would get way longer distance. I wish real bike reviews were this detailed. Generally on bikes we spend so little time braking that regeneration would be a waste of effort. - Available on a wide-range of different e-MTBs, - Clacking noise can be annoying Again, shift it down one notch at a time to get a feel for the change. I can only hear any motor rattling when I am doing really gnarly rocky downhill. And with brands such as Merida and Canyon making use of internal wiring through the handlebars, the whole arrangement is quite tidy. Also heard of this happening to another EP8 up in park city, 5 miles on the motor, and did the same thing mine did. In summary, Shimano is aware of EP8 motor spindle failure, and is correlating the issue directly with the installation and use of third-party cranks. Oh, how the humorous aspect of your comment has been missed. Non-recommended 3rd party cranks can make a crack in the spindle because the difference in design from Shimanos crank causes increased stress around the spindle hole. Shimano doesnt state what those design differences are, however. Thus, I could ride a few feet with power then the motor would cut off. Shimano advises that only approved crank arms should be used with its DU-EP8 drive units, reads Shimanos statement. It's like a dirt bike with a 15 mile range. What a misstep by Shimano to join Bosch in its failure. The Purion controller is vastly simpler and easy to read, but it looks cheap and its bulky, making it an awkward fit with brake and dropper levers. Environmentally I think they're a disaster as well - rare earth elements in the batteries for one thing. Side-by-side, the EP8 motor is slimmer around the belly and so offers a skerrick more ground clearance. Power less, battery smaller, it lighter is.. Would "every time you push the on switch" have been more understandable? The Shimano EP8 user interface is similarly elegant in its design. All e-Bike assist mode gets disabled during the downhill slopes. @tomdesoals: I don't quite get it though. Meanwhile, e*thirteens response places the ball firmly in Shimanos court. Couldn't agree more. A dynamo and regenerative braking is the ONLY thing stopping from buying an e-bike? - Tuning options are simple and effective What Type of Mountain Bike Should You Buy in 2023? Pros - extremely quiet Cons - annoying rattling noisesums up 2020! For consumers who do have an EP8-equipped Commencal with e*thirteen cranks, the Andorran brand is offering to replace the e*thirteen cranks with Shimano ones, regardless of whether theyve experienced issues with their EP8 spindle or not. The investigation has led e*thirteen to produce technical service bulletin 157 (TSB), published on its website on 14 October 2021. Occasionally it can feel a little peakier compared to EP8, but for the most part both motors are easy to get used to within a few rides. Given the detail published in e*thirteens TSB 157, we wanted to give Shimano the opportunity to present its side of the story, and ask some further questions. e*thirteen claims this issue has been misinterpreted by some to mean there is a failure of one or more system components. Cargo Take the load off and breeze past traffic jams Commuting Upgrade your urban lifestyle Active Get sportier in the city SHIMANO CUES Di2 Our all-new SHIMANO CUES Di2 inspires a more active and sportier lifestyle while making commutes less stressful so you can focus on the road - and the ride. Anyone having problems with the charger? On my e8000, my impression was (now on a Trek Rail w a Bosch gen 4) that if you were at two bars, you were really at one, and if you were at one, youd better be a couple of blocks from home. The freewheel is still in the (regular) rear hub so when you're not pedaling, nothing in the motor-bottombracket assembly should be moving, isn't it? You can improve efficiency by limiting the maximum torque, though it is still possible to get maximum power out of the motor by pedalling at a higher cadence, so you wont necessarily get more range by limiting torque. It doesn't feel good. We have shared the results with Shimano and select OEM customers. Can I give 100 upvotes please? With the new EP8, Shimano managed to close the gap to its biggest competitors. Easy fix. TSB 156 addresses a reported issue where the crank preload end cap can loosen and fall off, eventually causing the pedal cranks to become detached from the bottom-bracket spindle. The Shimano EP8 RS of the Orbea Rise does not present physical differences concerning the EP8 that we can see mounted on other e-mtb's. Its dimensions and weight are the same. Weve ridden the latest Bosch Performance CX Gen 4 motor on a variety of e-MTBs, including the Cube Stereo Hybrid 160 and the Trek Rail. If that fails check those thin cables have no freys and are all in tact, they are easily damaged. - Can we have remaining battery displayed as a percentage please? Upon a little digging on the internet, it appears that this functionality is only on offer for Garmin users. The biggest change has been with Trail mode, which now gives you access to the full 85Nm of torque if youre pedalling hard enough. Shimanos answers to our questions are published below verbatim. SpecializEd # levo SL is a great benchmark Have had a Specialized Levo & sold it due to making weird noises, so yes other manufacturers have problems too, not saying that is easy to get good reliability with new technology, but my Shimano e-8000 motor has been more reliable even is very wet weather! I have to admit some of the comments make me laugh out loud while others score some points for being helpful and based on fact, not hearsay fiction. Der Shimano EP8 ist kleiner und leichter Nicht nur das Motorgehuse ist kleiner, auch das Innenleben des EP8 Motors. In terms of improvements, EP8 is marginally lighter (300g) and smaller in volume (10%) over the old E8000 motor. What's your experience on this? Its easy to modulate via how much pressure youre putting through the cranks and the power delivery is progressive, giving it a very natural feel as a result. Maximum Torque This allows you to limit the maximum torque, with 10 levels of adjustment from 20 Nm to 85 Nm. At my age 69, if it isn't fun, exciting, and challenging, count me out! I've had a go on ebikes and think they're fantastic and good fun. The MasterMind TCU head unit on the top tube is also as good as it gets, with a sharp and clear, but unobtrusive display that reduces clutter on the handlebars. We recommend only Shimano cranks for usage with our drive units. While the motor is both more sensitive and more powerful though, Shimano has done brilliantly to offer usable control of that power. Where the EP8 motorisnt quieter than its predecessor however, is when youre not pedalling. I have never posted a comment here on pinkbike, however this article in particular is hitting a nerve. Theres still a whirring noise from the metallic gears inside, and the pitch increases slightly at higher cadences. A downside of the 2.2 motor is that it is noticeably draggy above the 25km/h cutoff though something we experienced during back-to-back between the Levo and Canyon Spectral:ON. Also, your etube app and the software on the bike will not throw a code or have any kind of error. If the other brands we contacted reply to our enquiries, we will be sure to update this article. The lowest setting sees the motor responding slower to your pedalling inputs. In a closed Facebook group called Shimano EP8 Owners, there are also reports of EP8 spindle failures. I would have respected Shimano more if they owned it and were more forthright about working to resolve it. Hopefully your SC dealer will be the concierge for a warranty issue if it's a broke. I rode an e bike and suffered a little bit yesterday. People know you're not running some old E8000 or E7000 motor. Bikers Edge in Kaysville Utah hooked it up and took a motor off their demo heckler mx and put it on mine. I own the Levo SL, and it is the most refined ebike I have ridden so far. From what I get from the article, what would actually bother me more is how it kicks in from a standstill or trackstand. These findings are the result of an independently commissioned investigation by e*thirteen, after the brand became aware of reports that EP8 spindles were failing on bikes fitted with its ebike cranks. I chose this bike because it has the EP8 and from research, seems to be the most reliable platform out there, assuming it's as reliable as the E8000. Basically any minor impact that causes the chain to bounce and tug at the chainring will result in noise. But to give you some numbers, weve consistently achieved around 1,500m of climbing during our 30-50km test rides. My first thoughts are that the disengagement part of the motor that allows it to pedal freely after 20 has already broken. The question of what happens with this combination is for the manufacturer of that combination to answer.. Let us know what you find out. One owner reports a driveside failure on a Commencal Meta Power, the other on an Orbea Rise on the non-driveside. Quote Start New Topic Post a reply to: SHIMANO EP8 - won't turn on (new bike) Another bike that features Shimano EP8 is the new Orbea Rise. Posted Oct 21, 2020. Unfortunately frenchies and Germans are not masters of marketing. And in terms of backup service and support, the fact that there are far more Shimano dealers than there are Specialized dealers may also be preferable for some riders. We bought drive units and crank arms, we are replacing at our cost all damaged parts and are covering labor [and] shipping costs that might occur. Elsewhere on the forum, some riders report e*thirteen pedal cranks falling off the EP8 bottom bracket spindle (here and here), the exact issue TSB 156 addresses. @tomdesoals: Ah, thanks I get it. As of April 2021, all of Commencals EP8-equipped bikes have been specced with Shimano cranks, but this change has taken some time to filter through to consumers because of the time it takes for fully built bikes to get to the shop floor. They must be under pressure to deliver units as this is at best rushed. The EP8 RS engine is physically the same as the . Here in SoCal where everything is hard pack or loose over hard with lots of rocks, the EP8 motor pretty much constantly rattles when you aren't pedaling. Plus integration looks like shit on those Nox bikes. e*thirteen is one of the biggest OEM suppliers of cranks on electric mountain bikes. This is because the assistance drops off quite quickly when you stop pedalling, particularly compared to the Bosch motor, which continues to push on for just a fraction longer. On one ride with the Canyon Spectral:ON, the range estimation initially showed 25km. How stuff like this gets through what I would like to think was extensive testing I will never know. Under this condition, with each ride the crack can expand, and this can result in a spindle breakage.. Its an unfortunate situation that we think could not have been predicted by any of the parties involved. They could have gone "yeah the rattling sucks but we hope you appreciate the motor nonetheless" but instead they composed this pure poetry. Aim for a cadence between 70-90 RPM for maximum efficiency and response from the motor. For commercial info: info@eplus.bike. Assistance Character This adjusts the motors support level, which is how easily the motor delivers its power based on your input. Just got my first 29er. Update. The EP8s smooth power delivery is mirrored by its exceptionally low drag something that is totally noticeable (or rathernot noticeable) around the 25km/h cutoff point. Shimano get your shit together or just say that you're not going to find a fix. Overall very pleased with the bike and the motor. The lighter weight is a big plus as well. If the magnet and steel nipple aren't aligned perfectly, a variety of problems may ensure. Quick everyone, it's another article about e-bikes grab the pitchforks! Seeing if anyone else out there has had problems with their EP8. Ive only charged 2x. When new the last bar of charge corresponds to roughly 15-20% charge, but over time this becomes 5-10%. I was sure it was a motor issue till I realized I needed to put the speed sensor on the new wheel. I have no personal experience riding with pedal assist but when I hear the high whiz from the motor I think that would drive me mad too. Gear or similar. You can hear it in the workshop just by lifting the rear wheel and dropping it on the ground, where it sounds a bit like a loose pebble bouncing around inside a wooden box. The charge bars are a major issues though on the 8000, after a bit of use the battery becomes extremely unpredictable. A forum community dedicated to Mountain Bike owners and enthusiasts. The updated Trail mode is brilliant, and the option to fine-tune each assist mode is a welcome feature for achieving the desired feel while maximising range. All you guys "waiting" to get a ebike are blowing it..the bikes are refined trek rail no problems..going around the country slaying every trail I see chugging beer and laughing at all u haters.. believe me I guys will all be on one sooner than later. I'm sure a dynamo can be integrated somehow with the hub rotations without causing a lot of drag. Would you like to receive offers, updates and events from BikeRadar and its publisher Our Media Ltd (an Immediate Group Company)? The YT Decoy also utilises its own 520Wh battery and the the Orbea Rise is built around a smaller 360Wh battery. But overall EP8 offers more of a quieter and gentler hum than the whine of the E8000 motor, and its also quieter than the Bosch motor too. I mean, one of the most beautiful things about the bicycle is how efficient and capable it is of traveling long distances under our own power. The EM800 display features built-in Bluetooth and ANT+ wireless connectivity for pairing both your phone and a compatible GPS head unit, allowing you to display information such as battery life and remaining range. In addition to the challenge of having remaining battery life displayed as five bars, the range estimation tends to drop quite quickly during the final two bars. I think we lost grit when we all got smart phones. Can someone make a bike with 50% - 100% assist? I like to see a dynamo recharging system when the bike starts to coast downhill. I also have Commencal 2021 meta power sx. Well, maybe, but he also chucked 20kg dead weight in his bag to try to make things right for you. Shimano said August was the best. We need to go deeper. Then we'll fix that for you. The existing Shimano E8000 motor is arguably the most popular motor in mountain e-bikes. Sometimes that means a DIY fix and other times it can mean a recall, software update or part replacement by a dealer. I also have a YT Decoy with Shimano E8000 motor. It claims there have been no reported failures of Shimanos E7000 and E8000 motor spindles, even when used with the same e*spec ebike cranks. He was pretty happy about ANT compatibility. However the motor operation itself is fabulous, smooth, powerful, feels natural when you ride, you can cover ground like crazy in this thing. - Low-drag performance Updating our software will allow you to change the factory parameters of the new motor from Shimano. I tried to find out the cause of this. Climbs really well and descends like a beast. Not a big Chan e but worth a look. Specializeds Mission Control app continues to be the market leader in terms of connectivity, tuning options and user-friendliness. Shimanos overarching advice is for consumers to only use Shimano-approved pedal cranks on its EP8 motors. According to e*thirteen, the safety inspection is relevant to all EP8 owners, regardless of what cranks are fitted. The low profile EM800 display takes up minimal space next to the stem, featuring a crystal-clear screen with colour-coded graphics to easily identify which assist setting youre in. It is a feature bro, the sound of pure class. If I pull the E-trigger, it'll still be a Levo SL now that S has worked through the issues. The brand suggests EP8 owners should inspect their motors spindles for damage or cracks originating from the drilled hole used for the pedal crank retainer hook, located on the splined portion of the axle. This will be a far more accurate method for determining your estimated range. Make sense. Specialized is close to this. I have this motor. But would the noise stop us from recommending an EP8-equipped bike? Smaller:Compared to the previous model, the EP8's volume has been reduced. When the motor applies torque it pushes in one direction and closes the gap, when there is no torque the ring can rock a little. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. 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